A question about scotchguard based lens

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Postby ninjikiran » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 am

I been searching around online, Crizal Advance seems to be the better choice compared to the lenscrafter alternative(it was un-named in the 2008 posting). My question is are are the Featherwate Complete in comparison to Crizal advance? Has lens crafters upgraded their technology to match?

For reference this is the post,

Q: Doesn't LensCrafters also offer an AR with the Scotchgard brand name?
A: Yes they do- but the product offers neither the improved hydrophobic performance nor the anti-particulate features of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector. Additionally, the Crizal name will remain exclusively with private eye care practitioners. Eye care practitioners offer many products that share a brand used by retailers (Zeiss AR, Transitions, etc.). The new Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector product allows eye care practitioners to take advantage of an extremely well-known consumer brand in Scotchgard with a product superior to that which can be found at competitor locations. Additionally, competitor locations will not have the power of the Crizal brand.

The goal being to increase AR sales in the US (which is good for everyone- eye care practitioners, Essilor, and consumers who will be seeing better through lenses that are durable and easy to clean).

Some will choose to squabble and complain about the marketplace- others will take advantage of a superior product and consumer brand to increase their AR sales... For the former, Crizal, Crizal Alize, Crizal Sun, and Crizal Alize with Clear Guard will remain available.
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Postby george » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:07 am

I am not an optometrist, but just someone who likes to research the stuff. I haven't personally compared the two, but Crizal certainly seems to have one of the best reputations in the industry, especially for anti-reflective lenses. When it comes to Scotchguard, though, the best information is probably what you see on the 3M website: 3M information about Scotchguard Eyewear <link removed as no longer active>.

Basically, both the Crizal Advance and the Featherwate Complete have scotchguard coatings. 3M says both repel dust, dirt, and water. 3M does say that the Crizal Advance with Scotchguard Protector "Repels smudges, fingerprints, water, and dirt better than any other lens". I assume that also includes the Featherwate Complete with Scotchguard.

I'm not sure what the person's background was whom you quoted, but unless someone actually works for Scotchguard or has spoken to the people who makes the lenses, I don't know how they can know that the Featherwate Complete with Scotchguard has "neither the improved hydrophobic performance nor the anti-particulate features of Crizal Avance with Scotchgard Protector". It seems to me the lenses are probably pretty similar.

My own uneducated opinion, as a consumer, is that much of this is marketing.
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Postby george » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:04 pm

I found the original quote you included in this thread. The person who posted the message is Pete Hanlin, an employee of Essilor of America. Crizal is a brand name made by Essilor, so obviously an Essilor employee will be biased towards their own product. That isn't to say the information isn't accurate, it just means you have to be aware of who is making the claims. I am still looking to see if there is any independent lab that compares all of these different claims.

It looks like Lenscrafters actually had the exclusive right to market the Scotchguard coatings for several years and it is only more recently that another company is using the Scotchguard name (Essilor using it with their Crizal lens).

I am also guessing that you can get the Essilor lense with Scotchguard at a better price through a private optometrist than what you would be getting with the Featherwate Complete from Lenscrafters. I see no reason not to go with the less expensive product, especially in this case where it seems there are at least reasonably credible claims that the Essilor product is superior.

I'd be curious to hear what Lenscrafters has to say about the differences between their lens and the Essilor product.
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Postby ninjikiran » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:38 pm

george wrote:I found the original quote you included in this thread. The person who posted the message is Pete Hanlin, an employee of Essilor of America. Crizal is a brand name made by Essilor, so obviously an Essilor employee will be biased towards their own product. That isn't to say the information isn't accurate, it just means you have to be aware of who is making the claims. I am still looking to see if there is any independent lab that compares all of these different claims.

It looks like Lenscrafters actually had the exclusive right to market the Scotchguard coatings for several years and it is only more recently that another company is using the Scotchguard name (Essilor using it with their Crizal lens).

I am also guessing that you can get the Essilor lense with Scotchguard at a better price through a private optometrist than what you would be getting with the Featherwate Complete from Lenscrafters. I see no reason not to go with the less expensive product, especially in this case where it seems there are at least reasonably credible claims that the Essilor product is superior.

I'd be curious to hear what Lenscrafters has to say about the differences between their lens and the Essilor product.


Yea, it is disappointing that there is really no independent testing or review of either lens. I take everything I read online with a grain of salt, which is why I have been looking for actual testimony or actual testing. There are quite a few Crizal demonstrations online but none for Featherwates. Lenscrafters doesn't seem to want to educate on their lens choices besides the simple basic information.

I have never been to a private eye doctor so unsure of what the costs will be(no insurance yet). All I know is I have been with normal lens since the age of 8-9 and completely tired of extreme smudging and glare. I am a heavy computer user so the NEED is there. I was thinking of Lasik in the near future but the technology is still too young and far too risky. I only have one set of eyes so I rather be safe than end up as one of their dead end horror stories(however rare they may be) and this is where this kind of lens comes into play. It wasn't till this weekend that I even knew I had the options, they don't properly market these products in the big chains. They seem to care more about style than anything else.
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Postby george » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:21 pm

If you have no insurance, I'd definitely stay away from Lenscrafters, as I'm sure they are far more expensive than what you can find elsewhere. I think you mainly are paying for the luxury of getting your glasses within the hour. I'm sure the lenses you can get elsewhere are at least as good of quality if not better. Based on the post you quoted, it does seem to suggest that the Crizal with Scothguard is superior to the Featherwate Complete.
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Postby ninjikiran » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:04 am

I decided to go ahead with the Crizal advance, the price was definitely right. I should have them anytime between saturday and tuesday, i'll come back and tell ya how it works out.

All I know is I am using a temp free pair at the moment, and i cant wait to get out of them. Since they don't have any protection.
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Postby ninjikiran » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:13 pm

Just a follow up, these are the best lens I ever owned after afew hours the difference is apparent. They don't get dirt particles all over them after a few hours, I got 2 rain drops on them and they didn't smear instead came off as full drops of water. They are thin and clear as day, no color hues or any weird oddities. I can't see behind me and there is absolutely no computer glare. Nor is there smudged brightness halos from dirty lens. The coat supposedly last somewhere near 20k wipes, can't test this out just going to have to take their word for it. Chances are they won't make it to that many wipes since I usually change every 2 years at most.
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Postby george » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:20 pm

The Crizal Avance definitely sounds like a great lens. Based on what I've been able to read, it sounds like it's as good as anything else out there.

I'm curious how you went about finding someone who would order it for you and how much it wound up costing?
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Postby ninjikiran » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:03 am

I went to the official Crizal website and located a store in my immediate area. Then I just called up the places on the list till I found the most friendliest and knowledgeable(first one that knew exactly what I was talking about). Price wise the Polycarbonate lens were $129 I think and the "Crizal Advance" treatment was $159. My preseciption is strong as a jump off point might be less if you have a weaker prescription, I don't know how that works. So in total the lens cost me around $288 and they took $40 off on the spot so I ended up paying $248 just for the lens. Which for me isn't that expensive since I wear glasses all day every day, so it is an investment in my comfort and level of visual enjoyment.

It is day 2 and they seem to still be going strong. Just putting on the free pair in comparison which has no protection the different is apparent. Compared to my day 2 experience with lenscrafters they are usually harder to clean and never look as good as they do when they see you out the door, with these on the other hand with little to no work there are no visible streaks or attack of particles floating in the air. Of course I am not an expert either and can only convey what I see.

My only wrinkle is I switched to plastic frames and they are a little challenging to get used to the way they sit on my nose.
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Postby george » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:42 pm

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Considering that the Lenscrafters Featherwate Complete lenses would cost $325 when I checked, it seems like you got what seems to be a superior lens at a better price.

I also have since found some more promotional information from Crizal about the difference between the Avance and the Featherwate Complete:

Q: LensCrafters® offers AR lenses under the Scotchgard trademark - is this the same technology?
A: No. The AR technology sold by LensCrafters is not Crizal® technology. The lenses sold at LensCrafters
under the Scotchgard name do not offer anti-static technology, do not have the improved
cleanability or topcoat durability, and are only sold in Poly and 1.67.


I did a bit more research and created a thread comparing the quality of various anti-reflective lens treatments.

I'm amazed how much information I've come across in a bit more than a year since I first posted a simple article about eye exam prices!
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Postby neenee » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:43 am

got new crizal lens - not worth added expense as they are no clearer than others from the past - feel it is another hyped up promo :x
neenee
 

Postby george » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:19 pm

neenee,

Which Crizal lens did you get? There are several different coatings available from Crizal. Where did you purchase them and how much more expensive was it? What kind of coatings did you have previously? When you say "no clearer", what do you mean? The main differences you would find are in the anti-glare properties which most are probably pretty similar. The bigger differences are with how scratch resistant the lens is and also how well it repels dirt and water, making it easier to keep clean. Some cheaper coatings will also chip and peel, which shouldn't happen with Crizal.

There are some very cheap anti-reflective coatings which people generally don't care for the results. There are many decent level coatings now with which most people would be satisfied, and then a few premium level coatings.
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Postby William » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:32 pm

Hello all,
I've had Crizal lenses for 4 months now and I would not recommend them. Frist off there are no scratches. I've been world traveling and are a real pain to clean. You clean them with glass cleaner, soap and water, vodka, gin and they look fine but if you angle them to the light you'll see they are smeared and forget breathing on them and using your shirt tail. Plus keep your little cleaning cloth clean at all times, if you use it 1-2 times it's dirty. Inside under florescent light everything is OK, step out into the mid-day sun and you'r looking through a fog. I use my old glasses, I'm now looking for a way to remove it. If anyone has an idea or recommendation please let me know.
Thanks,
William
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Postby george » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:04 pm

William,

I'm not aware that there is any way to remove the coating, but you should definitely take them back to where ever you bought them and see if they will replace your glasses.

Do you know what kind of Crizal coating you have? There are several different ones of varying costs and some are easier to clean than others.
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Postby Gary » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:50 pm

I'm not sure if this will work for Scotchguard AR coating, but I recently removed the AR coating from a pair of glasses purchased in 2010 from a local optical store. The coating was scratched to the point that the lenses needed to be replaced. After removing the AR coating, only a few very minor scratches in the lenses remained. I purchased Armour Etch at a local craft store for <$10. Worked great for me. Here is a link to a Youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoUivzsO_S0
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Postby pWhizzle » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:18 pm

I have had the Crizal Scotchgard coated lenses for about 1.5 years. I just replaced one of the lenses [$200] because (it seemed almost overnight) it got really messed up and looked like it had many tiny scratches on it and I could hardly see out of it because it was so cloudy. I just figured I had gotten hydraulic oil on it or some chemical that damaged just the one lense. Now, about 1 month later, the other lense looks terrible. I know I did not get any chemicals on the lense. The optician is now admitting that swimming pool water and sweat are of the chemicals that may damage the coating on the lense. If I had known how sensitive these things are then I would have never bought them. Don't waste your money.
I am considering trying the Armor Etch method to remove the coating...however I heard that's a bad idea with the Scotchgard.

Something peculiar about the first damaged lense, there was a small circle in the center of the damaged area that was clear as could be.
pWhizzle
 

Postby pWhizzle » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:50 pm

The Armor Etch removed the A/R coating from my Scotchgard lense! I should have done this to the last one and saved $200. That lense actually looks better and clearer than the 2-month old new one! I had to complete the process twice. :P
pWhizzle
 

Postby susieh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:48 pm

I am needing to purchase progressive no-line transition plastic lens for my one pr. of glasses. I currently have Crizal advance with Scotchguard protection. Should I stay with this name brand of lens, or does Crizal have something better, or should I go with Hoya? I wear my glasses for full time computer work, nighttime driving & watching television. Thanks.
susieh
 

Postby george » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:53 pm

You can read my detailed review of the Crizal Avance anti-glare lenses here. As you can see, I was underwhelmed with them. Sure - they work fine, but so did my cheaper Costco glasses with anti-reflective coating, and even more surprising, the super inexpensive basic anti-reflective coating from Zenni Optical wasn't significantly worse. I think most people wouldn't be able to notice the difference.

Just to be complete, though, Crizal offers two newer lenses than the Avance, and they no longer market their lenses as having scotchgard. I'm guessing they had some kind of agreement with 3M that they no longer have. The closest to Avance is the Crizal Sapphire. As best I can tell, it has a bluish residual color compared to the green that Avance has. By residual color, I mean the reflection you can see when you are looking at light reflected at wide angles. You don't normally see the color, but if you hold your glasses up to the light and rotate them slowly, you can see the light reflection at angles you normally wouldn't notice when wearing the glasses. The blue of the Sapphire lens supposedly allows slightly more light through the lens compared to the green. I think it is more of a preference which color you like, if you even bother to check to see if you can see it. The difference in light transmission is something like 99.2 vs 99.6%. I have no idea what that means in the real world.

The other new lens Crizal is hyping is the Provencia. It is designed to filter out blue-violet wavelengths which is supposed to protect your eyes from macular degeneration. The only comment I've gotten on that lens was posted in the above linked thread about the Avance. The person posted they had Crizal lenses that seemed to have a purple hue to them. That is the Provencia apparently, and the person wound up returning them because they didn't like that the color of the lens was visible to others. I have no idea how likely it is that people will be protected from age related macular degeneration by wearing lenses like Provencia.

So - bottom line after I spent hours and hours researching all of these anti-reflective lens treatments, that in theory have differences - in the real world they all work and are not going to be noticeably different for most people.

I would say the bigger issue in your case will be to find progressive lenses that give you a nice wide viewing area. I've only tried one pair of progressives which I got from Zenni and the only complaint I have is that I have to be looking directly at whatever I am reading. If I try to look out the side of the lens, it gets blurry. I will do more research before getting my next pair of progressives and see if the newer ones actually are noticeably better for me.
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Postby jjmahr » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:52 pm

George,

I thank you for posting this non-biased information. This morning I realized I pitted my lenses this weekend and need to buy new ones. Knowing that Costco's with anti-reflection are about as good as they get is very helpful (I paid a fortune elsewhere). Thanks for sharing.

Kirk


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